PODCAST- Olle Johansson – How to Cope With the Effects of 5G and EMF

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About Our Guest- Olle Johansson – How to Cope With the Effects of 5G and EMF

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Olle Johansson PhD is a global authority in the field of EMF radiation and health effects. He originally coined the term ”screen dermatitis” which became recognized as the functional impairment known as electrohypersensitivity.

Survey studies show that somewhere between 230,000-290,000 Swedish men and women—out of a population of 10,000,000—report a variety of symptoms when in contact with electromagnetic field sources. In 2000, the diagnosis of electrosensitivity was officially recognized by the Swedish government as a disability which may interfere with daily functioning and qualifies for both medical care and the provision of an electrosmog-free working environment.

Olle is a past associate professor at the Karolinska Institute, Department of Neuroscience, and head of The Experimental Dermatology Unit as well as a guest and adjunct professor in basic and clinical neuroscience at the Royal Institute of Technology, Stockholm. He has published more than 600 original articles, reviews, book chapters and conference reports within the fields of basic and applied neuroscience, dermatology, epidemiology, and biophysiology.

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Full Podcast Transcription

Olle Johansson 00:01
And they exposed ordinary bacteria, which you and I have in us right now. And they use the second generation 2g and also a Wi Fi router. And what they saw was that the bacteria became antibiotic resistant, which is more than a science fiction nightmare you know.

Diva Nagula 00:19
Hello, everyone, and welcome to another podcast From Doctor to Patient. Today I\’m joined with Olle Johansson, who is with us from Sweden. He is a PhD and a global authority in the field of EMF radiation and health effects. He originally coined the term screen dermatitis, which became recognized as the functional impairment known as electro-hypersensitivity. Survey studies show that somewhere between 230,000-290,000 Swedish men and women, out of a population of 10 million, report a variety of symptoms when in contact with electromagnetic field sources. In 2000. The diagnosis of electro sensitivity was officially recognized by the Swedish government as a disability, which may interfere with daily functioning and qualifies for both medical care and the provision of an electrosmog free working environment. He is the past Associate Professor at the Karolinska Institute, Department of neuroscience and head of the experimental dermatology unit as a guest and adjunct professor in basic and clinical neuroscience at the Royal Institute of Technology Stockholm, is published more than 600 original articles, reviews, book chapters, and conference reports within the field of basic and applied neuroscience, dermatology, epidemiology, and biophysiology. Olle, welcome, thanks. Thank you for joining us this morning or afternoon for you.

Olle Johansson 01:45
It is afternoon here. Thank you very much for that introduction. Thank you.

Diva Nagula 01:50
So I am fascinated by EMFs, I\’ve been reading a little bit about it. And with the rollout of 5G that\’s pretty much a hot topic, which we\’ll delve into later on in this podcast. But let\’s just briefly dig into the science and like explain, like what is EMF? my understanding it\’s a type of radiation that\’s emitted. And we have two types of radiation. There\’s ionizing and non-ionizing and x-rays are typically known as the ionizing which can cause the DNA damage that may cause mutations and things like cancer. So this other type of radiation is non ionizing. And that\’s where the EMFS typically are categories under correct.

Olle Johansson 02:23
Yes, all of it is actually electromagnetic fields of different frequencies. Some of them have enough energy to directly damage chemical bonds and ionize molecules. Others work by other mechanisms. But the border between non ionizing and ionizing radiation is actually quite wide and there is discussion because with non-ionizing radiation, you do see also effects that you classically would say only ionizing radiation could have and now you see that also with non- ionizing The question is, of course, if the non-ionizing radiation like from a cell phone could interfere with other molecular and cellular processes, including for instance, damage repair that may be halted or reduced when you\’re exposed to all this energy. And of course, with electromagnetic fields we\’re talking about, they are artificial, and they often have a completely other type of frequency, modulation, pulsation, polarization, etc. So they are generally not seen before here on this planet after all, and frequencies, yes, one of many characters to describe a certain electromagnetic signal and then also starts. For instance, if you look at the World Health Organization, and they have cancer classified already, in the year 2001, so called power frequent magnetic fields, which is a long term for household electricity, and its association with childhood leukemia, and that connection still stands and 10 years later on by 2011. They also cancer classified radio frequent fields, including all types of communicative signals we use, like for cell phones and tablets and wireless internet, and its association with certain brain tumors. And a lot of the discussion right now is also not only about 5G, as you said, but also 4G, 3G, 2G, and all others types of signals and their association with, for instance, brain tumors. And today, I had an extremely interesting call, because the World Health Organization, and it\’s actually a very narrow type of organization, it should maybe be called the world human health organization. And the call today was from a person that is very engaged in the health of pets like dogs, cats, and so forth. And where is the corresponding authority that actually protects your dog or your horse or a guinea pig. And to the best of my knowledge, there is no such overall umbrella for all these pets or livestock or wildlife. And when you go to laboratory experiments, you realize that, wow, they are all in jeopardy, and a lot of the sort of common discussion worldwide is not only about human beings, but also about for instance, pollinators. And I think it was 2018, that Germany reported more than 75% reduction in pollinators, including honey bees, and similar. And that\’s just a catastrophe, of course. And when you go to science, then you will find, and I have to point out those papers are maybe not as good as I want them to be, but we have urged different organizations to try to replicate them. But nevertheless, when you place for instance, a cell phone, close to a beehive, the Queen will gather its workers leave the beehive, and not return, we cannot do the same we cannot sort of flee the city or is free that town we are living in but honeybees, they definitely don\’t like this and myself and a Belgian professor, we did some years ago, very interesting experiment using ants. And that you can have ants on a big big table. And they will organize the table with the part where they sleep, where they eat, and so forth. And when you place a cell phone just in standby mode, it\’s waiting for a call, the ants that normally would travel between the different rooms, they would more often stop and then look up and look around. And they would scan the environment. And then they would walk stop look up around so they are obviously irritated or excited by something. And the only thing you have added are the electromagnetic fields from a stand by phone. And it\’s extremely interesting to see in further experiments that for instance, if you place the cell phone under the room where they keep their babies, their eggs, immediately they would start moving the eggs away, diagonally over this very big table. And they will instead push their toilet on top of the cell phone and the cell phone is under the table. They cannot see it. They cannot in any way know where it is. and still they react to something. And the only thing we can imagine this something to be are the electromagnetic fields of course.

Diva Nagula 08:44
That\’s fascinating. And this is all through some sort of cell phone signal, right? So we\’re constantly around cell phones. And you know, as many years have passed with technology, and its innovations, we live through our smartphones and cell phones. And the telecommunication industry allows us to do this. And there\’s really no stipulations that these types of devices can harm our health. But yet the World Health Organization has actually stated that cell phones are considered as a class 2B carcinogen, and that was labeled in 2011. So why isn\’t more information or more issues being brought out by the telecommunication industry to help us really prevent any issues prevent any harm from these signals?

Olle Johansson 09:37
Well, I agree with you to 100%. But maybe it\’s not really the responsibility for the telecom industry. Yes, that\’s a sidetrack. Remember that the telecom industry selling all these gadgets to us as safe. They do not in any way take any legal responsibility for them, which is in a sense, more telling than any test tube or mice I could show to you right now. And I have recently a very good example, I was traveling with a commuter train here in Stockholm, next to me said
to a very posh lady in her 60s, and she was using her smartphone. And since no one knows who I am, you know, I always take the chance to lean forward and say, Hey, you know, the World Health Organization in Geneva, Switzerland, they have cancer classified the signals coming to this phone? And did you know that? She got really angry with me and told me that I was stupid. I didn\’t know what I was talking about, I should mind my own business, and so on… But I said, please be careful here. Now you have a smartphone. Why don\’t you Google? WHO brain tumor and cell phone? She did? And she was silent, like for 45 minutes. And then she slowly looked up and said to me, wow, you\’re actually right. I\’m sorry. I yelled at you. You are 100% right. But why haven\’t mother and father, our government and parliament and health authorities in Sweden informed me She said, I\’m not only a mother, I\’m also a grandmother. And I\’m really getting angry now. She said, why didn\’t they inform me as a citizen here in this democracy? And I said, yeah, that\’s really the head of the nail, you\’re hitting there. And you should contact them, you should ask them questions. Oh I will, she said, and then we separated because I had to leave the train. But you see, this kind of discussion is, I would say the most common counter question I get from particularly concerned parents, and more grandparents. And they get really angry with the situation when they discover that A) it\’s cancer classified B) the telecom manufacturers and operators do not take any form of responsibility, as are not a single insurance or reinsurance company in the world. They have all the abandoned ship, and many of them more than 20 years ago. And the consumers don\’t know a thing. And I remember I was at that conference in London, 2002. And at that conference was, for instance, at Lloyds UK, which is the largest insurance dealer in the world, Swiss Re from Switzerland, which is the largest reinsurance company, and a lot of other companies, including a small handful Sweden and they were all saying that for them, it wasn\’t a question whether it was dangerous or not. And this is nearly 20 years ago, for them, it was obvious that it was dangerous. And the question was, who is going to pay for this in the future, when all the health claims should be dealt with, and they didn\’t want to take that responsibility. And they didn\’t do anything illegal because they are private enterprises, you know? They decide themselves if they want the insurance or not. But many people like in Sweden, I would say everyone, they believe that by having insurance of some type, they are protected against health issues from for instance, their cell phone, but they are more naked than any baby ever was, so no way. And when you tell people this down, they get the same kind of very good questions as you have.

Diva Nagula 13:39
Yeah, that\’s interesting, because insurance companies are in the business of making money. So if they\’re not going to cover issues that are arising from EMF stress, then we know that it\’s a losing battle for them, because they know that the EMF stress on our bodies is very harmful. And they know that this is a correlation that they don\’t want to cover because it\’s going to lose millions and billions of dollars.

Olle Johansson 14:06
Well, I would go even further trillions or even bigger numbers, you know, I mean, it\’s just an enormous question around the corner. We have recently sent actually a letter to the Swedish Prime Minister, his name is Stefan Lofven, and we wrote to him before the corona crisis. And we put exactly your sort of thought into his head, what will happen when, for instance, people and brain tumor patients, when as they already have done in Italy, for instance, when they start to win court cases in the United States of America, and claiming compensations in the enormous numbers and I know they are starting in the United States at $100 billion per case. Sweden would too, such cases, because more than we will go completely bankrupt, because Sweden has put a lot of money into Ericsson Telecommunications. And if they would be at Ericsson system for that trial and losing United States, then it would be the end of the whole of Sweden. So we wrote to the Prime Minister telling him and said, hey, what is your strategy, and I don\’t want to sort of try to make a joke or anything, but his response was, blah, blah, it was no response whatsoever. And he didn\’t even bother to write it himself, he sent it stepwise, further down in the hierarchy. So it was a civil servant, a woman who answered it, and what? They are not engaged or interested at all. And now, I every evening, I go down to my knees and say, please, God, do not make Ericsson lose such a case in the United States, because then I need to sell my bicycle as well. So all our retirement funds, for instance, through NGO industry sectors, all our health care system, it\’s everywhere, you know, and not so good.

Diva Nagula 16:21
No, I understand. I mean, we\’re obviously talking about the harmful effects it can have on the body, especially with 5G being rolled out. And it\’s a more intense amount of electromagnetic frequency waves that are going to be placed on our bodies, already exposure\’s inevitable. And, specifically, let\’s talk about what this means for us. When this 5G is completed in terms of its rollout, how are we going to experience symptoms? What symptoms should we be looking out for when 5G is rolled out? Obviously, people have already been experiencing symptoms through 4G and 3G and all these other iterations. But specifically, let\’s talk about like the physiological symptoms that people can experience with electromagnetic frequency stress.

Olle Johansson 17:11
Yeah, yeah. I mean, to begin with, and such rollouts, and it was the same for two, three or four years on they are performed without any form of due diligence, or pre-market testing, which has been put, I would say, really, to the point in the United States in your Senate, when Richard Blumenthal, in February last year asked the Food and Drug Association and the Federal Communication Commission and the operators and so on, what kind of data they actually had on 5G proving it to be safe? And they had to answer it by saying they had not even investigated it, they had nothing to come up with. And that\’s unfortunately, the same everywhere, as in Sweden, there are no studies beforehand. And we will start to pick up as you say, symptoms, and yes, looking backwards at the previous versions, my suspicion is that you would have an increased frequency, for instance of headaches, blood pressure alterations, infections, and immune system alterations. It can have effects on the fertility. Here in Europe, there\’s a dramatic reduction, the last year\’s in male sperm cell quality and count, and people are looking for the culprit. And when such studies are done in laboratories, with test tubes and cell phone radiation, there is a clear connection. So for me, if I was prime minster, I would be more engaged to say the least. I would be pretty afraid. And I would ask myself constantly, are we really knowing what we\’re doing right now? And the answer is no, you don\’t. And also not only the effects on humans, you will have also to take into account, as we said before animals, but plants as well. And maybe the most scary of the resulrs in the last years is the one from in the United States. And they exposed ordinary bacteria, which you and I have on us right now and in us right now. And nothing much happened with the bacteria and they use the second generation 2G and also a Wi Fi router. And regardless, what they saw was that the bacteria became antibiotic resistant, which is more than a science fiction nightmare ya know? And, oddly enough, 2017 when this study was published, competing completely, without knowing about each other, the G20 countries have this special meeting in Europe, only about the fact that already then more than 25,000. And today, it\’s more than 33,000. Europeans die prematurely, because of antibiotic resistance in healthcare. You can compare that with the numbers from the COVID-19. You don\’t reach that kind of numbers yet from COVID-19 so it\’s a big thing. And you know, I immediately call the relative of mine who is an orthopedic surgeon, and asked her I said, you read about in the newspapers now on them, that antibiotic resistance has become a problem in healthcare. And she has said, \”problem, are you kidding? It\’s an enormous issue. And if not, some inventor quickly come up with new antibiotics. We are? Well, I guess you would say screwed, you know.\” And then she said, \”soon, people will start to die again, from a splinter in their thumb, as they did at the end of the 19th century. Because we cannot save them.\” And then suddenly, the corona question, as seems, well, relatively smaller, less accurate perspective. And it\’s the G20 meeting, it was calculated that by 2050, more than 10 million people worldwide, were dying from antibiotic resistance. But you know, if you connect the results and the discussions of the G20 countries and put them together, the 10 million could easily be 7.6 billion people. Wow. Yeah. I hope that my prime minister in Sweden is the exception and that all other kings and prime ministers and presidents or whatever, that they are engaged in this, because this is huge.

Diva Nagula 21:59
Yeah. And then also, from my understanding as well, there is also a connection between EMF
stress, and autism, and Alzheimer\’s disease.

Olle Johansson 22:11 Yep.

Diva Nagula 22:12
We\’re seeing the huge numbers of both autism and Alzheimer\’s in this country, I believe autism, there\’s one in 10 children that have autism now. Yeah. And it\’s and and there is a correspondence between EMF stress and these diseases and kids these days, I mean, they\’re on theirs on tablets, or on their phones at a very young age. So they\’re being exposed to this type of stress on a regular basis. When you and I were children, we didn\’t have this type of issues, rights, and we\’re able to overcome anything that was happening to us, our immune function wasn\’t constantly compromised. But now it\’s it\’s inevitable. So I mean, how can we protect our children? And how can we protect the elderly? And how do we protect ourselves from the the ill effects of EMS stress?

Olle Johansson 23:04
No, these are excellent questions, you know, and before we leave the damage side, unfortunately, very, very detailed and accurate science has been done in animals like rats and mice, and similar showing that exposure of their brain to everyday type, radiation from cell phones and mobile telephony, will destroy nerve cells, and also kill nerve cells in their brains in the exact areas where you have the association with Alzheimer\’s disease, for instance, including the hippocampus. And that is extremely scary. And I\’m surprised that not health authorities and others react to it. But I guess, as always money speaks, it\’s more a questions of greed and profit than an actual need. And then for protection, it\’s interesting, you bring that up, because the last five years or even six years, when I gave lectures, and now I\’m, of course stranded here in Sweden, but normally I would be touring somewhere in the world, I was recently both in the United States and in England and in Italy and so on, but after Christmas, you cannot do it any longer. And then and when I will be giving my lectures, more and more often people have asked exactly the question, what kind of solutions are there? And then well, there are of course, possibilities. This month, for instance, the Polish company, called Mudita, has launched a low radiation cell phone called Mudita Pure and in Sweden, there is a fantastic company called Radiation Protection of Sweden. It\’s shortened RP of Sweden, and you can google it RPofSweden.se they have right In cases you would save for cell phones, tablets, Wi Fi routers, etc. And they would reduce the radiation dramatically, somewhere in the order of 70 to 99, some times even 99.9% reduction, and still having connectivity, battery time as before, etc. So it works very elegantly. And the question is, of course, with such a dramatic reduction of the personal exposure, is that enough? Or are you still, influenced by the radiation from more far off antennas and base stations, and we would need to do, of course, studies on this. Unfortunately, I\’m retired myself, and it\’s expensive to do any form of scientific experiments, but I\’m constantly looking for some millionaire or a million people with a single dollar, either one, that could support such studies because, in contrast to the FDA and FCC and United States, I want to know now before it\’s too late.

Diva Nagula 26:13
And that\’s interesting that you bring up these devices that are being manufactured that have the ability to curtail the amounts of radiation that are being emitted. And in our homes, we\’re constantly under the influence of our Wi Fi routers, and as well as our cell phones. And in the future. What we\’re seeing is the rollout of 5G. And some areas around the US 5G has already been rolled out as is areas around the world. My understanding is is that the technology that\’s going to be built from here on out is going to incorporate the 5G so that everything, every appliance that we have, every electronic device is going to have some sort of like a chip that picks up Bluetooth and be able to emit some sort of signal. And then we have these 5G towers that are going to be constantly around us. And then you talk about the satellites that are going to be blanketing the whole earth with 5g. So we can\’t escape it even though we have devices that might be manufactured to reduce the amount of EMF and radiation. So there\’s got to be something else that we can do for our own bodies. Because we\’re going to be constantly barrage to protect us. I mean, any other suggestions that you might have for us?

Olle Johansson 28:32
Well you can of course it by, for instance, microwave shielding, costumes and cloth. But they\’re very heavy to carry. And you get very warm inside of such a space suit arrangement. You can cover your rooms with paint and or shielding material, etc. But the question is, of course, do we want to have a society where we need to protect ourselves from the very same society? And I think most people would say no. And you talked about the actual the Internet of Things, as it\’s called, depending on 5G, and then the versions to come like 6 and 7G. And then there is a glimmer of hope actually, because I regularly go to Finland, the neighboring country to Sweden, and do measurements because they have a very advanced world leading laboratory there. And then next door to them is one of the centers, the hubs really, for the development of the Internet of Things. And when I was there last time in October last year, I talked with a number of CEOs from these companies. And they said that it seems that if people are kind of saturated, they don\’t want to have more apps in their phone. They rather want to have like in Sweden now a puppy or a kitten or a baby or a neighbor or someone to talk to even though and they don\’t want their refrigerator to call them when they\’re outdoors saying, hey, you need to buy milk or something like that, you know, adults are after all adults, they can manage by themselves. And these guys, they\’re in Finland, they said that very many of the companies that initially put risk money into this or now withdrawing, because that the market is far too small. There will be a few tech nerds that want to have all these gadgets, but there are too few to produce them. And they said that maybe autonomous vehicles, like cars, buses, that kind of things. But for instance, in Sweden, when car drivers have been interviewed, practically all of them said, no way. I want to drive my own car, I don\’t want to have a computer doing it, even if it would be safer. So they enjoy driving the car actually. So the question is, again, how would we have such a society, a few cars being autonomous, the rest being non autonomous, and in stock on various right now a bus line with a bus that actually moves around by its own. And in Copenhagen, you have a driver less train. And I mean, there are developments like that, of course, again, the companies developing such gadgets, they want to sell them so they are pushing. But the question is if the consumers are accepting all of this, and also psychologically, I went in this metro train in Copenhagen, actually, and it was a little bit of fun feeling, because there are no driver, no personnel, nothing. And you sit all the way up front and see the rails in front of you. And for the kids, they have glued like a panel, so they could play that they are maneuvering the train. And there was a small girl, playing like this. It felt a little bit odd to sit there and looking down at the girl thinking, yeah. Are you and the computer in contact or not? You know, or is this going to end well. Well, of course, we arrived at the airport without any problem. But psychologically, maybe people would say no, thank you to this. And I can see the benefits. And there has been a number of television programs about the general robotization, or automatisation of the workforces. And with some paradoxal consequences. For instance, around the corner, you would have real-life real-looking working sex dolls, putting, only in Europe, many millions of people out of service and work? Are we prepared for thay from a society point of view? And in Sweden it\’s a discussion with taxi drivers or bus drivers, train drivers and so on? Well, what should they do them? I mean, not everyone could be maintaining the very same systems that has made them out of work, you only need a few such experts. And maybe a taxi driver is not the first to become a computer expert on a complicated autonomous vehicle. Around the corner, we have some pretty big questions that creates after 5G slash the Internet of Things,

Diva Nagula 33:48
That\’s actually good news, because that\’s what my understanding was, was that there was going to be all sorts of technologies, that we\’re going to be implemented in appliances and everyday items that we use that have the ability to emit a signal to our cell phones or to our routers. But that\’s good that people are more disinterested in those types of technologies. So that gives us a little bit of hope. We won\’t be constantly inundated and surrounded by by EMF frequencies.

Olle Johansson 34:16
You know they made a Swedish home that was fully automatized. You just use your voice to put on or put off the radio and the television and the lights and so on. And there was a young man running around, shouting on and off and so on, you know, and then afterwards, so one or two days later, I had a discussion with a group of men and women and they were all unified around that they felt the man was silly. It looked silly, it was just the situation. And then I said, yeah, it works as long as it works. The moment it breaks down, and you don\’t have a knob to turn on the light in the bathroom, are you then really happy?

Diva Nagula 35:07
You mentioned previously that we can employ some things like wearing some type of cloth or applying paint, can you be a little bit more specific in terms of those types of tips that can help eliminate or prevent the excess EMS stress?

Olle Johansson 35:20
Yes, indeed. And then there are companies, even on the internet, where you can order that
kind of paint or shielding cloth and the shielding metal mesh and so on. And it\’s not cheap to begin with and you need to really know what you\’re doing, you need a measurement equipment, which in itself could be complicated and expensive. So mostly people would turn to like a building biologist. And for instance, in the United States, I know they send a wardrobe 50 persons that are not only building biologists, but they also have the extra credentials of being educated within the field of electromagnetic radiation. And such persons, they would be able to really monitor, measure, sort of objectify the whole situation, and come up with a solution or remedy. But I say, again, it\’s not cheap. And it\’s not uncomplicated at all. So you need to know what you\’re doing. And if you don\’t, then you might even create the worse situation than before. Kind of a compromise in between many people use a canopy like an insect net over your bed. But it\’s not for insects, it\’s a wave trap for electromagnetic signals. And many people report that they sleep considerably better. And since the sleep is really the repair phase for all cell types, including brain cells, is a vital importance. So that could be a good start, it\’s very easy to set up. It\’s like an ordinary insect net, and you just tuck it around yourself around your bed, and then you go to sleep. And it\’s not that dramatically expensive. You can buy it from different companies on the internet. And as long as you don\’t, by mistake, tear a hole in it will will function excellently well. And one test you can always use, and you don\’t need any measurement equipment at all, is to have a cell phone inside, it shouldn\’t work. If it does then you have some kind of leakage. Is there anything that we can put around our cell phones to protect the emission? That would only be these RP of Sweden cases, I haven\’t been testing all other types of cases in the world, I know there is a number of manufacturers. But at this Finnish company, I have brought to them different other cases, and unfortunately, they do not work. So then you just waste your money. But this Swedish RP of Sweden, it does what it says. And they are very good in the sense that they only talk about radiation reduction. They don\’t say that you will not get a brain tumor later on or something like that. Because they don\’t know. They cannot promise you that. But you will have a very hefty, I would say radiation reduction. And I\’ve heard I mean, since you started in your introduction to talk about electro hypersensitive people, very many such persons report an excellent situation. And they write to this company, I\’ve seen letters they have sent to them telling them that they haven\’t been able to even use a cell phone for years. And suddenly they can like half an hour a day, or 10 minutes a day or something. So it\’s a big revolution. And also when they cover their routers and tablets and so on. They can allow themselves to be exposed at least for a shorter while each day. So evidently the reduction of radiation does something. And the question is, of course, will it do enough to keep you away for long term effects like Alzheimers, autism, as you mentioned before, cancer, etc. And they are we don\’t know yet.

Diva Nagula 39:31
But for the people who are listening to this podcast, I guess some simple tips that we could provide them would be to essentially put the phone on airplane mode when you\’re sleeping at night. You know, maybe consider shutting off the Wi Fi router at night so that you\’re not constantly barraged by electromagnetic frequencies.

Olle Johansson 39:51
And also move the phone as far as away as you can from the bed. Don\’t tuck it under your pillow or something like that. No, put it at the far end of your flat or house and leave it there, you know?

Diva Nagula 40:05
And then when we\’re talking on the cell phone, I\’m actually guilty because I\’m using bluetooth earbuds. So are there any other devices that we can substitute that we may use on a regular basis that would prevent us from exposure? Like I guess there\’s some headphones that we can wear, that have air tubes, and that allow us to eliminate the signal? Because mine I\’m wearing right now has a Bluetooth signal? Yeah, I think that there are some devices like that correct?

Olle Johansson 40:33
Yes, there are. And again, this very same Swedish company that I mentioned before, RP of Sweden, they do have, I\’ve seen on their website, earphones that are based on other technologies. So that will be the initial start, then you should definitely not use any Bluetooth based ones, as you have right now. And so that\’s a good suggestion. Indeed.

Diva Nagula 40:57
So those are some easy tips that we can employ just around the house. And I guess there\’s no real objective signs of whether or not these are improving, we just have to sit there and be more aware and in tune with our bodies. And we can gauge on a day to day, whether these types of techniques and the strategies that we employ to reduce EMF stress will actually help our bodies.

Olle Johansson 41:22
I would say, you\’re right, it\’s not easy for a layperson to monitor any changes, but what you can do every day, you take a sheet of paper, and you have like 100 millimeter 10 centimeter long ruler drawn on the paper. And every day, you take your marker pen, like I have here, and you put across, and yes, summarize your day at, let\’s say, six o\’clock in the evening. This is from a health point of view how my day was, and then the next day, the next day, next day, and this is called a visual analog scale. And then you can see over time, if you can quickly flip them over, if this cross would move to better, or stay stable, or move to worse. And that would be an indication that whatever you have done, maybe works or not. And I also see that many persons very wisely. They change what they eat, what they drink, and the amount of exercise and so on. All of that is very good. As long as you move your X up to the right, towards better and better, I feel healthy. It\’s a very simple tool you can use.

Diva Nagula 42:46
You were also just mentioning about our diet, is there anything that we can do from a dietary
perspective, or from a supplement perspective to enhance our antioxidant mechanisms?

Olle Johansson 42:57
Well, also an extremely important question. And, of course, when you travel around as I do to different countries, and I won\’t point out, but in some countries, people do eat very badly. It\’s the industrialized food, it contains an enormous amount of additives, chemicals, and sugar, other carbohydrates, and so on. And if you can get rid of all of that, and instead try to listen to your health coach or physician or local doctor or some type, and include more and more fruit, vegetables, that kind of things. And also, as I said, before, improve in exercise. I\’m happy the camera cannot tell you how I look down here, because I would have to lose some weight. And I\’m working on it. Because at the end point, you can get into trouble. And I did, I got a slight version of diabetes type two. And I don\’t want it to increase and become worse. And therefore I\’ve listened to the doctors said much better food, keep away from all kinds of sweet beverages and things that contain carbohydrates of different sorts, and much more exercise. So my life has really been changed, I would say and then it\’s always How should I put this? When I travel for instance to one country, I could mention United States and when you go into supermarket, as Sweden, European, you immediately realize that no, there are no cereals in the world that are purple, pink, green, or blue, but they believe there are and also the smell in such a food store. It\’s reeking of chemicals, you know, and so as a European, you just want to get out of it. In Sweden, the situation is maybe a lot better, I guess. But of course, there are things here that are not good. And especially the overconsumption as I am a good example, that you eat too much and exercise too little.

Diva Nagula 45:15
Yeah, I mean, it\’s important, I guess the good take home message really, for everyone is that you need to have a good foundation. From your perspective, if you have a good foundation in terms of eating healthy, doing exercise, and watching the quantity of foods that you\’re putting into your body, then you\’ll have a good foundation, where you could actually withstand some of the EMF stresses that we\’re going to be facing in everyday life. However, if you\’re living a poor lifestyle, where you\’re constantly eating a poor diet, you\’re on the brink of obesity, then you\’re putting yourself in a situation where you\’re not going to be able to withstand some of these stresses that are going to be placed in our society. So I think that\’s a really good take home message. Before we depart, I want to ask you, because there\’s all sorts of questions that are going around on the internet, with relations to Coronavirus and 5G rollout. Is there any correlation at all?

Olle Johansson 46:12
And it\’s very difficult to answer sort of straightforward if we go back to studies done in the mid 1900s and 90s, Italian scientists headed by Professor Grimaldi demonstrated that already activated viruses could be even more activated not by 5G radiation, but power frequent electromagnetic fields in the low frequency ranges, like you have a 60 hertz utility system. And we have 50 hertz here. And of course, his handheld cell phone is the strongest source you have for such power frequent fields. So well, anything is possible. Although I\’m hesitant whether it has really played a role right now. And but further research will reveal the answer. And, right now, everything and anything is possible. But still I would be a little bit surprised if there is an association because, if you look for culprits in different countries, most of them have not had any 5G whatsoever, they have still become dramatically ill. And when you look for other culprits like heavy smoking, as you said, bad food consumption, lack of exercise, etc. They were there, and they are much more likely factors to be interacting, especially at the bacterial level, people talk about Coronavirus. That\’s true, but most patients die from bacterial infections that come as a second train so, of course, if you have been heavily smoking, your lungs are completely destroyed, miniscule bacterial infection would kill you anyhow.

Diva Nagula 48:15
Right, so there\’s not a direct correlation, there might be an indirect because of our lifestyle?

Olle Johansson 48:25
I would still be surprised, you know.

Diva Nagula 48:28
Well, Olle, I appreciate you so much for taking the time out of your busy day. Hopefully one day
we\’ll we\’ll meet in person.

Olle Johansson 48:36
Yeah, that would be fantastic. Thank you so much, and good luck in the future.

Diva Nagula 48:40 Thank you.


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