PODCAST- Dr. Manon Bolliger- Your Body is Smarter Than You Think—Healing trauma & more with the Bowen Technique

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About Our Guest- Dr. Manon Bolliger-Your Body is Smarter Than You Think—Healing trauma & more with the Bowen Technique

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For over three decades, Dr. Bolliger, ND has trained health care practitioners on how to integrate body and mind while addressing pain, trauma and health. Dr. Bolliger’s unique methodology guides people on a path to physical, emotional and spiritual wellness, reminding them of their life’s choices and agency.

“How you live your life is how you heal. The body knows how to heal. Our job is to learn how to live.” Dr Manon Bolliger, ND

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Full Podcast Transcription

Dr. Manon Bolliger 00:00
A friend of mine would say well hope is dope and I said no, no, it\’s not like not hope if it\’s based on truth on having seen it on knowing that it\’s possible that people have succeeded in getting rid of rheumatoid arthritis, MS, whatever it is, then holding the possibility as a doctor is one of the big services that you can do.

Diva Nagula 02:01
Hello everyone and welcome to another episode of From Doctor to Patient. Today, I\’m joined with Dr. Bolliger. For over three decades, she has trained healthcare practitioners on how to integrate body and mind while addressing pain, trauma and health. Dr. Bolliger\’s unique methodology guides people on a path to physical, emotional and spiritual wellness reminding them of their life\’s choices in agency. How you live your life is how you heal. The body knows how to heal. Our job is to learn how to live. These are nice quotes from Dr. Bolliger. People off to limit their healing process. Whether it\’s from arthritis, chronic pain, multiple sclerosis – by abdicating their power to their diagnosis, the past to help in discovering what really needs healing, rewriting the stories that don\’t serve us honoring our body and reclaiming our path back to Joy. She\’s a best selling author of \”What Patients Don\’t Say if Doctors Don\’t Ask: the Mindful Patient Doctor Relationship\”, and \”A Healer in Every Household: Simple Solutions for Stress\”. And she\’s currently writing a book based on the intelligent healing system called Your Body is Smarter Than You Think\”. Dr. Bolliger is a board certified naturopathic physician since \’92, and founder and CEO of bonecollege.com, TEDx speaker, hosts of The Healers Cafe where she has conversations on health and healing with healthcare practitioners. Dr. Bolliger, thank you so much for coming on to our show today. How are you today?

Dr. Manon Bolliger 03:48
Good. Well, thank you very much for having me here.

Diva Nagula 03:52
I\’m really excited to dive into trauma and diagnosis of chronic conditions and how that relates to our trauma. So can you talk to us in your approach in healing trauma?

Dr. Manon Bolliger 04:06
Okay, so it really starts with the approach to the whole person. Because as a practicing doctor, at the time, I\’m not in practice right now, just to be clear. I would look at what the patient says they have, or believes they have and then do the normal diagnostics of what it is that might be happening. But trauma doesn\’t always come in at the very beginning. So often, it\’s through a discovery process, which is part of my LISTEN program where I go through many aspects of a person\’s life and their psychology, how they see the world, how they feel about themselves, their self sabotateurs that come up part of the language they use all that. That\’s how we discovered that there\’s been a time period or something that has this shadow side that has brought in – I call them part time personalities – but they might be dormant in the unconscious. So they\’re not always present. But they can cause huge handicaps in being able to address what the body is experiencing currently, like a simple example would be a person with rheumatoid arthritis. And they\’re not responding. So they may have tried drug therapies, they may have tried some natural therapies, they may have looked at their diet. So they\’ve done many things. But what they haven\’t looked at is, what what caused it what triggered it? And you can say, well, sure, it\’s in the it\’s in the genes, maybe, we have a lot of theories where it comes. But most of the onsets come from some event or some event that sort of put the the flame in the fire, whatever that actually started things showing up. So it\’s as if, possibly, there might have been latent susceptibilities, which we have in many conditions, we can be susceptible to certain things, but it\’ll never manifest unless there\’s been a trigger to it. And the trigger often reignites an earlier trauma. So it\’s painting the whole picture and seeing where the stuckness is, where is it that people are? Why aren\’t they going forward? and sometimes they know, that\’s the conscious part, but there\’s often a part where they don\’t know why. And so that\’s part of the, you know, the discovery work that we do together, as well as one of the tools I use is something called Bowen Therapy. But I don\’t use it as just technique, do this to the body, it\’s really like work with the the patient and allow the body to release whatever it needs to. And so much of our unconscious are emotions that are trapped. And so people will have almost like, like dreams, but they\’re not dreams, they\’re vivid dreams, like if they\’re during the treatment, they\’ll have an image or something that comes up, they\’ll release an emotion and they go, Wow, I had no idea where that came from. And then once it\’s brought to consciousness, then we can work with it, and release it from the holding pattern that that we tend to create in our lives when we\’re living without to the awareness.

Diva Nagula 08:05
So going back to your example of a patient having been diagnosed with rheumatoid arthritis, are you saying that we have to go to the root cause of this diagnosis or this specific chronic condition, and then unearth, the emotional aspects related to the diagnosis, and then by doing a map, we\’re able to heal the trauma associated with the issue, and then, in essence, really be able to help facilitate healing for this particular person?

Dr. Manon Bolliger 08:37
Yes, I think that\’s a perfect summary. And if I were to make a generalization, which is truly a generalization, I would say that in the majority of the patients I\’ve treated with rheumatoid arthritis, there has been a loss or a grief, but within two years prior to the onset of the symptoms.

Diva Nagula 09:00
Wow. Do you find that do you find that true with other chronic conditions as well, or just specifically with rheumatoid?

Dr. Manon Bolliger 09:08
No, with all all different conditions they have, as a single physician, I don\’t have, you know, the breadth of knowledge to be an expert in many of the different conditions, but but I have seen patterns where I come to sort of wonder if this is part of the picture, but the process discovers that anyways.

Diva Nagula 09:32
What you\’re kind of reporting is something that I truly believe in. I mean, I really feel that if your most chronic conditions have some sort of traumatic events that incites this particular condition to commence, and in my opinion, I feel like if you can really release trauma from an individual, as well as curtail and mitigate inflammation, you really are able to transform an individual\’s health.

Dr. Manon Bolliger 10:00
Absolutely. And I think the second point, you\’re saying inflammation is something that we can easily do with lifestyle. And so many chronic conditions have an inflammatory component. So I think one of the areas not looked into enough, which is why I really appreciate your question, what about the trauma, because the thing is, you know, drugs themselves is only a little piece of it. And it\’s sometimes only a bandaid, you know, doing lifestyle. While that\’s a coping mechanism, sometimes it\’s curative, sometimes you really get rid of inflammation in your diet, and your body has no reason to continue creating it. But when that doesn\’t work, there\’s more. And I find it\’s so much more efficient. If we get right to the bottom of it, and allow all of that to be released, then, you know, of course, it\’s better to eat a diet that\’s healthy and not inflammatory. But if you don\’t pay the same consequences, you\’re freer, you\’re free to be, yeah, to make sometimes errors of judgment, and you\’re not going to pay for it in tremendous amount of pain and inflammation. Right. So it\’s like you normalize a little bit.

Diva Nagula 11:25
And then with these folks, I mean, sometimes, you know, people have these conditions for years, and they haven\’t had the sense of correlating their conditions with a specific event. So how is your approach in a way that unearths the causative factor without causing more trauma?

Dr. Manon Bolliger 11:48
It\’s a very good question. Because most people, if they think there might be some trauma, we\’ll focus so much on the trauma that they traumatize themselves. And a lot of the therapies out there, it\’s it\’s endless self help, when I find the most effective way is to work with what we\’ve come to understand about, about psycho-neuro immunology, and really understand that once we focus our mind, to something we would like to achieve. And we don\’t think that we\’re broken, that we don\’t think we\’re just like , a total mess, we just need to be tweaked, we will, we can head in that direction, everything that needs to come up will come up for healing. So it\’s really about understanding that we have three types of memories we have, we have the unconscious memory, we have our self-conscious, egoic memory. And we have something that some people call it super conscious, it\’s this sense of intuition, this, this knowing the voice that is the I call it in my women\’s groups, the wise woman, there\’s wise men too, don\’t worry. It\’s all that same inner knowing. And it\’s not a voice that\’s emotional, it\’s a voice that just knows, that will tell you that you don\’t need that extra piece of whatever it is bread or beer or whatever it just knows, it just tells you and if you can attune yourself to listen to it. And really have a purpose and goal that you can envision, like, great health and vitality and you have a purpose, why you want it. Like you want it because you you want to be free in your older age or you want to play with your grandkids, once you\’re in that structure. It\’s amazing how by working with those three memories, we allow whatever needs to surface to come to the forefront. So it\’s a bit hard to explain just like that, but that\’s essentially the process. Healing is is simple. Like we complicate things. We are so designed to want to heal that with a little bit of guidance. Incredible things are possible. And a friend of mine would say well hope is dope. And I said no, no, no, it\’s not like that. Hope if it\’s based on truth on having seen it on knowing that it\’s possible that people have succeeded in getting rid of rheumatoid arthritis, MS, whatever it is, then holding the possibility as a doctor is one of the big services that you can do because so many times, as a naturopath, I get patients that come and I\’ve been told there\’s nothing they can do that are going to be on this for life and they feel defeated. They don\’t trust their own body, they don\’t trust their own innate healing capacity. So I think once people realize that they have this, and that they are truly able to create the life they want, and love from the inside, it\’s much easier to heal.

Diva Nagula 16:33
So my curiosity is yeah, I totally agree with the sense that the body has its own innate ability to heal itself. And obviously convincing the patients who have been typically going through the western medicine process where there have been philosophize about how they have to take this specific medication for the rest of their life in order to curtail their symptoms and technically keep their disease at bay. So understanding that and overcoming that hurdle, because they\’ve been essentially brainwashed in this philosophy. So one is you have to mitigate that type of thought process and two when you introduce the process of saying that there\’s a specific traumatic event, or emotional or otherwise, that could be contributing, sometimes they can basically look at this as a far fetched type of modality to treat their disease. So I\’m pretty confident that there\’s some challenges when you talk about this modality when you\’re introducing or talking with the patient about what they can expect with your treatment.

Dr. Manon Bolliger 17:48
True, there is, but one of the things I\’ve learned is you\’ve got to connect with people where exactly where they\’re at. So for example, if I have somebody that\’s brought in by somebody else, for their sake, you know, that type of thing is, you know, come see my wife, or come see my husband or whatever, but they, they just, they really don\’t want to be there. I love that they\’re skeptics, it doesn\’t matter. And I\’m not there to prove anything to them, it\’s for them to experience it. So then I will actually start with bodywork. Because when they connect to their own body with this particular methodology, it\’s very hard not to be shocked that our bodies are so powerful. You know, and they\’re like, Oh, come on, there\’s no way that this could have done anything and or can do because it doesn\’t always work immediately may take a week. And so I\’ve had people walk out like in a huff and puff and and then my service, you have to pay for it. It\’s not covered by any anything. Well by private insurance it is but in some cases, but people will will come back. And they\’ll say, Okay, I don\’t know what you did there. But and so it\’s like, well, let\’s see, let\’s see what your body really wants. And if you work with them like that, they go oh my god, my frozen shoulder. It\’s like, wow, I was told I couldn\’t do anything or do physio for another two years or whatever. And they\’re like, well, is there anything you can do from my anxiety? And I\’ll say well tell me more about it. And it\’s the slow development of trust. And I think that\’s the relationship it\’s not trust me blindly, like we\’re supposed to do nowadays. Health experts telling us what to do without any discussion of anything and that\’s very, very scary, but like, trust the relationship will give it to you. Like they would know that I would never go against my oath to first do no harm, then I would know what I\’m doing. And I would let them know. And okay, this, this feels like we need to do further investigation or maybe another referral or another test or whatever. So I think you know you, what\’s the word in English? You you win your trust? Is that the right way in English? Yeah.

Diva Nagula 20:26
Yeah. And so my other question is with the trauma itself. So you were mentioning body work as a modality to release some of the trauma that\’s stored in the body. And obviously, you\’re very much into the philosophy that trauma can be stored with the body. And I believe that as well. Do you exclusively? Do your work through the body? Or do you do anything else that can unlock memories and events? That\’s in the subconscious?

Dr. Manon Bolliger 20:55
Yes, so I do both. So, in my physical practice, I\’m in Canada, and we\’re in very strange situations currently, which has actually allowed me to create new ways of connecting with people because of the limitations that we\’re experiencing. But in my physical practice, I would do both. And I would do them sort of depending on what people came in with, like, I\’ll give you an example. Actually, it\’s an example I used in my in my TEDx talk to and which actually got banned, just as a side point. Interesting, because I talked about the innate immune system and how powerful it is. We have problems with that apparently.

Diva Nagula 21:44
Yea, pharmaceutical companies don\’t like the words \”innate ability to heal\” so yeah I\’m sure that\’s why it was removed.

Dr. Manon Bolliger 21:52
When it was just the timing was was everything it was I just did it in January 2021. So yeah, bad time. But but the stories are, are amazing patient stories that I chose to really explain this. But this one is about about trauma. So I had an actor, relatively well known one as well, who, obviously after about 10 years, you don\’t have stage fright, right? I mean you\’re doing it, you\’re a little bit, but you don\’t have major stage fright. But he came in saying that every time he was about to go on stage or do something like that, he would have this incredible sensation in his body. And he couldn\’t, he was in a panic state. He couldn\’t do anything. So he basically was not able to act for five years until he saw me. And you know, he had done everything, all kinds of drugs, he had seen all kinds of therapists, muscle relaxants for the spasm, etc, etc. So I said, well, let\’s do this, this work. And I decided with him, I\’m going to do the physical work. And as he\’s lying down, I\’m doing a few moves on him. And he has this taste of anesthesia that comes in his mouth, and I wasn\’t using anesthesia. I don\’t need to, and I\’m not qualified for it either. Anyway, and he\’s like what is this and he has a big realization and flash to when he had, he was paralyzed with fear going to a dentist for an operation that required anesthesia. And so what happened is that as the body released, the anesthesia and the memory, and the trauma, basically what he had done is merged a tiny fright stage fright for him was a little thing with a major fright, which was this fear of dentistry. And they had become one and his body was not able to separate them. So he had existed for the last five years with merged memories into one and that was his trauma. The moment when body released the trauma by bringing it to consciousness, with the anesthesia, which is not a nice feeling, but it it put like everything together, his body relaxed, and that was the end of the spasm, the end of the fear, the end of everything, it was just like, Hmm, I\’m free. And it\’s like we get our wires crossed, right sometimes. Right? And that\’s it that can happen with our mind. And our bodies can hold this for as long until we let it go. And so there was no figuring it out that easily. I mean, in retrospect, possibly we could have figured it out with it history, but he didn\’t really nothing came up until his body was ready to speak. You know, so that\’s an example right of, you know, that type of work with the body. And now I\’m doing it without the body.

Diva Nagula 25:16
Yeah, I mean, since you\’re unable to see, you know, folks in person, so yeah, I wouldn\’t. That\’s what I was always also curious about. So what other modalities do you use mean, specifically, you\’ve had to pivot from body work, you know, now, how are you getting to the root cause with and able to heal the trauma that these people have?

Dr. Manon Bolliger 25:37
Yeah, well, the first step was to get over my limited belief that I absolutely needed a physical body because that really was difficult for me and touch is so important, and it\’s part of like connection. And so for me to give that up was, was my own personal growth, that\’s the first thing I had to do is say, Well, what if there was actually a possibility of still helping? And so that was the first step? Because if you don\’t ask the question, if you don\’t open to the possibility, nothing else happens. And, and then I started using a program that I wrote, several years ago, that was sort of dormant in the background, that I had, you know, for my students to help them better understand the doctor patient relationship. But I hadn\’t actively used it as a program online. And it\’s based on the LISTEN principles. And so I started bringing people through the steps and finding incredible things happening that just surprised me. Literally, quite honestly, I\’m always surprised I find healing so powerful and so beautiful. So it\’s not shocking to be surprised for me. But when people say, well, my knees, they don\’t hurt me anymore, and I haven\’t touched their knees. It\’s like, how is that possible? So I don\’t have answers on the how yet. Like, I\’m still in that, like, wow, there\’s so much more I know it\’s there. I get it. And I don\’t get it fully. You know, I think we\’re just such powerful beings, so much more than just the physiology of our body and the biology of our body. You know, and then we can say, yes, and also, we\’re thoughts, and we\’re beliefs, and we\’re feelings, and we have emotions. And maybe there\’s even more, maybe we actually, are these, you know, souls inhabiting a body? Maybe there\’s more and when I\’m going into this kind of work and seeing what\’s possible. Yeah, I have to stay open with the question and go, if there\’s a desire to heal, and you\’re doing everything in alignment with it, why couldn\’t people heal? If you can structure it, right, you know, like, you can\’t just say, well just do it there is a kind of a holding the space and, and step by step process, but it\’s possible, this is what I\’m seeing now. So, yeah, catch me in a couple of years.

Diva Nagula 28:37
I mean, are you able to discuss your methodology and so that we can understand what it is, that\’s different. And since now, you\’ve had to pivot the way you\’re implementing the tools that you use to promote the same type of healing?

Dr. Manon Bolliger 28:54
Right, okay. So, so the the LISTEN principles that I based it literally on an acronym, and when I had stage four cancer, which was now, plus 20 years ago, and I healed naturally, I didn\’t have the hysterectomy that I was scheduled to have, or anything else. I had to go to the root of the trauma. And so I based the first part on this and so L stands for love. And it\’s about deep self care and asking ourselves the question about what is loving to me just literally sitting with that with every decision we make. Because we have this idea of selfish and it\’s a very weird way of looking at selfish because if we don\’t look after self, there is no one else that we can look after. I think many doctors make that mistake to where we\’re constantly out there giving, giving, giving, and then it\’s like, we\’re burnt out or exhausted, so I think that\’s a big part is inquiry. So it\’s inquiring into our thoughts and beliefs and, and where they come from, in our values. S is symptoms as symbols. So I help people establish a metaphor for their life and for what\’s happening. And because the unconscious speaks in symbolic language, often by the words they use or the images, we can actually unravel the process by our imagination. So people will say, like, a hot burning army. And that\’s why we have this inflammation. And it\’s like, well, what can this army do? Where else can it go? So we kind of break, what is it actually trying to do. And by understanding the process and working with it, we can actually release some of the beliefs that are hidden in these metaphors that we use for our life. The T in LISTEN is touch, touch and trust. So there was my hiccup, because I had this idea that I\’ve got to do the work. But when I started my practice, in Nova Scotia, I taught my patients how to do the very basic what I call reboot, so that families could do this for each other. And I\’ve had kids as young as 12, learn it, because it\’s that simple to do to their parents. And couples can do it too, together. And what it does is it puts you into parasympathetic mode. So that your body can heal, because if you\’re in stress mode, you can\’t really heal, like healing doesn\’t take place under fear or under stress. So it\’s a simple way of rebooting the body. So that\’s the T. E is to engage. And through really engaging our, our life, we become empowered, when we realize we have choices, we\’re always making choices. And when we stop looking at things happening, you know, to us, and feeling like we\’re the victim of our life and circumstances, but rather, what\’s the wisdom of the little thing I did here, which was a failure, what can I learn, but I made that choice and trusting that it\’s the path along the way. So it\’s like, changing a little bit but engaging in what I would call our, our energetic body, to really, you know, to be, so you can actually receive it, because as long as just just ideas, nothing happens. So that\’s the E. And N is now. It\’s literally what\’s the next step now. So I use that as my baseline. And then when people have done that, that basic work with me, then I do other work. That is similar, but different. It\’s just more tools to the box that that help people become the main creative agent in their life.

Diva Nagula 33:43
I wanted to go back to one of your letters in your acronym T touch. In these times that we\’re living in. A lot of times people live by themselves. Yeah. So how would you address this issue with an individual who doesn\’t have anyone else around them?

Dr. Manon Bolliger 34:00
Yeah. So and that is exactly what came up. So there are people and because, you can\’t go visit and all that? Well, the truth is, people don\’t touch themselves. You know, and it\’s like, we were in a zoom webinar, and we\’re all like, holding ourselves like a hug on skin. It\’s like we have two different hands and our body doesn\’t even know the feel of each hand. On the other side, right? You know, it\’s remarkable how we don\’t know our bodies. And you know, feet, right? So many people have never touched their feet and so the end of the body and they don\’t connect with their feet and now some cultures do, feet are a big part but just to move the little carpal bones and move the foot and stretch it and look at it, you know? Those are things that, that bring a connection with oneself that is so overlooked. And there\’s simple simple things, it could be brushing your hair. Like, it\’s just we don\’t pay attention to so much of that, or we go to estheticians that take care of this part and that part, it\’s, it\’s the same kind of thing, we don\’t realize that we, we can do so much ourselves. And breathing.

Diva Nagula 35:30
Yeah, there\’s a lot there that, a lot of people may say it\’s too much they\’re required requires some accountability for each individual to go through these processes that you\’ve outlined. So I guess my question is, how long does it take for a person to unearth their their trauma and release this trauma from their body? And yeah, we\’ll start with that.

Dr. Manon Bolliger 35:56
Okay. I mean, the right answer is it depends. It depends on a million things. And it\’s not necessarily related to how long ago. So in other words, somebody can release something, including pain that they\’ve had for 20 years, almost as easily as somebody who has just had it for, you know, two months, like a more acute or six weeks. So it isn\’t related to that. And you\’re saying with a new methodology in this new circumstance, and that, well, yeah, I need more people to give you an absolute feeling. But I have seen people in such disbelief that they can actually heal things that I\’m also shocked with. So I think, again, if people want to, it\’s a fabulous process to be able to allow it and see, it doesn\’t hurt. And it\’s certainly faster, I think them many processes I have participated in, because, you know, you have to heal the healer first, right. So I have done just about everything on earth that I could get my hands on, to really experience it and to know, and I find this to be really a combination of so much information that I\’ve learned from incredible masters and people out there plus my own intuitive knowing of what feels right.

Diva Nagula 37:38
I mean, I can only imagine if you\’re able to use this specific tool, along with bodywork, I mean, how much more effective to facilitate the release from the person\’s body. I can only imagine how just it\’s like that one two prong approach would be just unbelievable, and be able to really treat and heal that person that much quicker. Also, so trauma, you know, to through an individual may not be their own trauma. I mean, as you know, that trauma is inherited, from at least four generations, we can see trauma being inherited. So a lot of times people who have these issues with disease processes, it may be triggered by something that\’s not even, you know, on their own awareness, it could be just related to something that has been passed on from generation to generation. Do you find that the case in some of your clients and some of your patients,

Dr. Manon Bolliger 38:33
Yeah, and this is the part that\’s, it\’s, this is the fun part. When you create the structure where they have a goal, and they see it, then they realize where they\’re at right now. It\’s like there\’s a field in between where I kind of look at it, like a football field, and they want to get there. But there\’s all these things that come up in the way, Gopher holes. And so I look at these gopher holes as aspects of our whole being that are coming up for healing. So as we\’re creating this process, memories come and I\’ll ask them, Where does words that come from? And people say, it feels like it came about, whatever, many years ago or four lives ago? And I\’m like, okay, and they\’re like, did I just say that? And I said, Yeah, you just said that? Because there\’s a part of us that knows this. And then there\’s, you know, the part of the mind that goes on, this can\’t be true, I can\’t know and all of that sort of justification. But I said, it doesn\’t matter. If your body has given that to your superconscious we\’re going to work with it. And if it\’s true, then it will not be in the way anymore and all these gopher holes will be nicely sanded down and we\’ll be fine and you can get to your goal. So we want to see what are the obstacles that show up and this process is super simple, it\’s very, you don\’t have to work hard at it, you\’re not searching for anything, you\’re just in a state of what I call innocence. It\’s a state of, of just allowing what comes and trusting that your superconscious will bring out what it needs to. It just does. And if we stop going against, and just saying, you know, it\’s saying and I don\’t know if it\’s true or not true, I don\’t know, like, I can\’t go back four lifetimes ago, and prove it one way or another. But if you get better, and it came up, who cares? It\’s just like, let\’s do the work. You know and I think that\’s the humbleness of this is that. One may not know, for sure. But if, if it works, and the end result is that we are living a life we love in the body that we can connect with? Who cares?

Diva Nagula 41:10
And I\’m also curious about the body work itself, you know, this is much more than your deep tissue massage, swedish massage, this is somatic work? Correct? Were you trained on this? Or did you just kind of intuitively figure out where on the body to target and lease?

Dr. Manon Bolliger 41:26
No. So the work, those spots to begin with, we\’re a part of an assessment from a fellow named Tom Bowen, who was in Australia. And he did this work, and then different osteopaths and chiropractors came to see and witnesses work. Now, he was highly intuitive. He also was trained in Chinese medicine. So he had some understanding of meridian lines, and, and all of that, and he would assess people\’s fascial lines, which are similar to the meridian lines, and see where there were stuck patterns. And he would look at how people sat and how they, you know, how they held their bodies, and he could tell what was off. So he was a truly gifted healer. He, in his life, when he died, there was 13,000 people who showed up at his burial, people he had helped, like, from all walks of lives, and he would, he would help people that were in wheelchairs and pregnant women for free. So a big contributor to this world. Anyway, so I learned the basis of his work as a starting point, and then I combined it with my knowledge. And over the years, I got a sense of what this is, and then I just allowed myself to, to write down what I did, and see if it works. And if it worked in at least 60 cases, then it became something I would do for this condition or that.

Diva Nagula 41:54
So it\’s all trial and error for your own purpose?

Dr. Manon Bolliger 42:33
Yeah, basically, I mean, there\’s something that leads you to this make sense, like if you\’re going to work with the belly of the muscle, you got to find the belly of the muscle. But if you\’re working with a tendon, you have to think a little bit differently. So there\’s hunches of how to do certain things. And then you kind of piece it together, we only have this many muscles, for as many tendons and you know, you start putting things together and making more sense of it as you do this work. And I was seeing 150 people a week, so I had lots of experience with people.

Diva Nagula 43:58
I\’m curious. So people, they, when they come to you, they\’re not complaining of any physical manifestations of discomfort, or they may be, but for the more or less when you\’re doing your assessment, you\’re able to literally look at the entire body, palpate, feel, we\’ll look at the structure, look at the conference, compensatory measures, and then based on that, along with their complaints, determine, you know where to work on?

Dr. Manon Bolliger 44:22
Yeah, yeah, well, and here\’s the very interesting thing. So I teach this, like, I founded a college called Bowen College where I\’ve put this whole methodology together with the mind body component, so not just the technique, but that the understanding of how that fits in the entire, you know, client-doctor relationship or client-practitioner relationship. So you give the body sometimes a similar amount of information. And that\’s what I call a reboot. It\’s actually you can do the same to every person, the first session. And what it does is it brings out the elements that you should be looking at next time. So there\’s an order to healing. So let\’s say somebody has sciatica, and they had shoulder problems, and they have a migraine, and maybe they they have terrible PMS, whatever. So they come in and you get a sense, okay, well, what\’s worse, what\’s more strong? What\’s this? What\’s that, so you get a history and an intensity, sure. But then when you do the basic treatment, it\’s like the body decides, this is what we\’re going to deal with first. So when they come in next time, they may feel, you know, overall, more relaxed, maybe, but now, they\’re sciatica is like, please deal with this. This is number one, it was number three. But we need to deal with this. And what\’s interesting is the body also heals in the reverse order of the apparition of symptoms. On the physical level. So it\’s the same truth in homeopathy as well, that\’s what we use to kind of have a look at, are we going in the right direction? Are people healing? You know, innately? If they do, then they\’re going with the last thing? And they\’re going backwards? To the things that are significant.

Diva Nagula 46:39
So, yeah, in other words, I guess the deeper underlying issues are going to be the last to be unearthed.

Dr. Manon Bolliger 46:46
Yeah. And even the like, I have people where I\’ve done a treatment, they never complained about an ankle issue. And then they\’re like, Oh, my ankles are really weird now, what\’s going on? And I said, Well, did you have you had problems? You know, yes, I actually fell off a horse and blah, blah, blah. And it\’s like, oh, that\’s where it was. So it wasn\’t fully healed. And now that the body\’s in total healing mode, and wants to heal that. So as we get through everything, it\’s like, I just see, like, come it comes up and says, okay, come on now, I\’m ready for this.

Diva Nagula 47:27
I wanted to get your opinion on this. So I tend to believe in the same philosophy. And I\’m curious to chat with you a little bit offline, about learning some of the techniques and methodologies that you\’ve figured out over many years. And through trial and error. We have the same philosophy in terms of how to heal trauma and mitigating and reducing inflammation. So what are your thoughts on the utilization of psychedelic substances to help facilitate the release of trauma?

Dr. Manon Bolliger 47:58
Well, personally, I think it can be very helpful to people who, who have done that I know, certainly, I think it\’s public knowledge, I\’m allowed to say no, but Dr. Gabor Mate has done tremendous amount of work on this. And he was working here in Vancouver on the east end. And I\’ve certainly assisted in his workshops and that, and it\’s incredible, what happens when you allow the the unconscious, to come out and to get processed. And here\’s the thing is, I believe that it\’s so important to have the respect of what\’s the word I\’m looking for, it\’s a ceremony, literally, we have to have reverence to it, we have to know that there\’s going to be an interaction and a dance, and you need to be in a safe environment. And ideally, having somebody who can help process the information that\’s going to come up for you. So I think that whole part is so powerful, but when people use the substance, as if it were a mear drug, I don\’t think that does anything. I mean, it\’s not I agree, it may have, you know, some hallucinogenic effect, but you\’re not going to heal unless you\’re in a healing context.

Diva Nagula 49:30
I agree. And what I tend to do is I facilitate these types of experiences. And I find when they\’re in that space, that, you know, they\’re much more apt to have a release, as long as you understand and you have that intentionality ahead of time. Yeah if you\’re doing it purely just to, I don\’t know, to explore or just to, you know, whatever the reason is, it\’s not going to proceed with these types of results of healing, because the context was never there. So, yeah, I agree, I agree. And that\’s how I\’m using it. And I\’m exploring more, you know, because there\’s so many ways to utilize these substances with different modalities to really get to the root cause and release it in a much more efficient manner. That\’s kind of what my search is. And so it\’s been, it\’s been really interesting talking with you about your modalities and some of the things that I have, that I\’m utilizing, it\’s just really coming up with various algorithms and techniques to really make a transformational process for an individual.

Dr. Manon Bolliger 50:37
Well, it\’s interesting, because this coming weekend, practitioners I\’ve trained, and people who are who have a background in psychedelics that have done this kind of work, they\’re meeting together to see how that works. It because it just seems like both of them have done both. Like, everyone\’s aware that there should be magic here coming. So anyway, so that\’s, we\’re gonna see what that\’s like. So you definitely can be in touch. Because yeah, I think if we can bring in touch to this. It\’s a game changer.

Diva Nagula 51:16
I agree. And I also agree with what you said, very beginning of our show, is that the healer needs to heal first.

Dr. Manon Bolliger 51:23
Yes. You know, continually, right? Like, it\’s because otherwise, how can we really be of service if we\’re triggered, if we\’re in our egoic mind, if we are, you know, if we have other concerns, other than, actually, the patients sitting in front of us.

Diva Nagula 51:42
Exactly. And as I can relate to us, as I\’m also the stage four cancer survivor, but I had to go through the Western means of treating myself because I didn\’t know any of this other alternative way of healing the body or know that the body has an innate ability to heal itself, because I was brainwashed by Western medicine as I am a western medicine practitioner, and I\’m literally that\’s what my show and my work is about is to try to lead people and give them information that they\’re otherwise not exposed to.

Dr. Manon Bolliger 52:11
Yeah, well, I think I think it\’s really important that you\’re doing that kind of work, because we need bridges. You know, we need bridges continually. And, you know, and if I can bring it to current relevance, today, more than anything, is people are being brainwashed. And I believe doctors have been brainwashed, completely, that they actually think that some steroidal, you know, injection with god knows what\’s in it. Because we\’re still in experimental understanding, is the solution, when truly the research has shown that our innate immune system actually does what it\’s supposed to do. So it\’s shocking, besides the politics, besides all other things, there is fundamentally a lack of, of true knowledge there. We\’re not trained to believe anymore, and that our bodies are powerful. And that, you know, we really have a say on our body. So that even that is being slowly eroded as if it didn\’t matter. So I think it\’s super, super important. And I think, especially now, when I think about these poor children that, you know, are living in fear, because their parents have believed that somehow, if they need to get this thing, there\’s absolutely no reason for them to get it. Like most of them are already immune, it doesn\’t affect them. And they\’re doing it for grandma or for Aunt whatever, because of their condition… the logic is beyond beyond, but how we could inflict on this generation, what we do not know. And we\’re starting to know, more and more, and it\’s very problematic. And I find that yeah, I know, many people say, Why aren\’t more doctors speaking out? There? Are doctors speaking out there being censored censored? Yeah but there could be a I mean, I really see that we could everyone could step up. It\’s time really to hold your oath. You know, all of us. Like, it\’s just, it\’s scary what\’s happening.

Diva Nagula 54:34
I agree. I could talk to you about this for you for hours on end. Because obviously, we have the same philosophy. But for our listeners, if they are interested in learning more about your work, and what you do and maybe even becoming a patient of yours, what\’s the best way for them to reach out or to find more information about you?

Dr. Manon Bolliger 54:53
I\’m actually doing two sessions in December. But I don\’t know when this coming out, but that might be next week, probably okay. Okay, then it would be to go to BowenCollege.com/create. So and there you can find out much more about this next process. And I also have, BowenCollege.com/yourmindbodyreboot and that\’s the LISTEN program that I was talking to you earlier about.

Diva Nagula 55:54
Excellent. Dr. Bolliger, thank you so much for coming on the show and having I really had a great time chatting with you and excellent, excellent topic to discuss.

Dr. Manon Bolliger 56:07
Oh, well, thank you for having I really enjoy educating and empowering and also giving people hope. That\’s really important. So thank you so much for having me.

Diva Nagula 56:18 Absolutely.[/et_pb_text][/et_pb_column][/et_pb_row][/et_pb_section]

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